UPDATE: The YouTuber in question began censoring my comments. Predictable. Evidently he can’t defend his bible.
It always astounds me how far a christian will go to defend killing children (in the name of god), but attack a woman for birth control or having an abortion. If it was a Buddhist, who logically stands on a ground of non-violence, I would agree they have a logical claim, but a christian? Hell no. In the least they should recognize logically, they have no ground to stand on with abortion, since their god is supposedly the greatest abortionist throughout history – killing more children (born or unborn) than any society ever.
Often I raise Numbers 31, specifically verse 17, with Christians on this topic. Usually they walk away with their tail between their legs. On occasion, there’s a christian apologist who attempts to defend it. What’s worse than a verse about killing children? A man who defends it.
Case in point is the video below. I’ve seen this defense in Quora and other sites. Apologists, like lawyers, go to great lengths to defend their deviant god, and it gets pretty cringe worthy.
The speaker of the video jumps around a lot. It’s hard to follow his train of thought because he’s jumping so much. This is often a ploy of christians I personally know, to distract. By overwhelming the audience, they steamroll out their views, and few challenge them. I’m one who’s going to challenge him. I had to pause, rewind, stop rewatch again and again to get his thoughts into a logical flow… going from point 1, to point 2, and so on.
UPDATE: In doing some research on the Midianites, I discovered his own data was wrong. He said in his video that the Midians sent women to secretly seduce Israelites so they could gain access to their god’s grace. The fact is, Midianites descend from Midian, who is a son of Abraham. Accordingly, they already had god’s favor. Also, he claimed that the Midianites sacrificed their chidlren to demons and false gods. While some historic societies did do this, the Midians are not mentioned as such. Both the Jewish resources I read, and archeology sites, attested only that Midians believed in Hathor and other gods, but there is no mention of child sacrifice, which is one of the points the speaker claims is evidence for why they were destroyed.
The biblical passage being discussed here is Numbers 31, specifically verse 17:
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.Numbers 31:14-18
Defense of Killing Children
The speaker in the video attempts to distract. He jumps into “historic context.” Haha! This is classic. As the son of a minister, I’ve seen this my whole life. The way a theologian attempts to blow smoke up your ass is to say, “let’s look at the historic context…”
In this case the “historic context” (from the Bible’s perspective) is that the Midian people they were themselves killing children and they drew first blood against god’s people… therefore, it is concluded (with a hidden premise), that killing their people similarly is justified.
Let’s break that defense down logically:
“In Thy Word”‘s Logic Statement: If people A have committed crimes against people B, then when people B get the upper hand they can now do the same crimes against people A.
Yet clearly the speaker doesn’t feel this way, as further down someone says, “how do you feel about people killing child molesters who have escaped justice?” His response, “I can’t agree with that” (look below for the screengrab):
Of course it’s not rational to round up people and kill them. This YouTuber knows that, but he breaks HIS OWN chain of logic.
Imagine after WWII (which killed far more Jewish people than the Midianites), people began executing ALL the male German children. Would that sound correct or just?
This is called HYPOCRISY. Where you defend behavior in one instance, but not in another instance, when it’s the SAME conditions.
The YouTuber is naive at best and has a had time listening/reading. He responded to one of my comments, not understanding me. To be clear, I am against vigilantism, and the like. I am saying, your defense of the Bible is akin (logically similar) to what is described above (vigilantism). You know one is wrong (modern killing), but you are stuck now, because you just spent 15m defending child murder!
The answer, that you’re unwilling to face, is that the Bible is wrong. The god of the Bible could be man made ideas, benefiting people of the day. Since he can’t accept that as even a possibility, he has to try and defend a losing cause…. becoming increasingly more illogical.
Killing the Sexually Active Women
In the passage from the Bible, Moses (directed by god to kill the Midiantes), tells the soldiers that they need to also kill the non-virgin women.
According to “In Thy Word” (the YouTuber), this was because the Midianite women were covertly sleeping with the Israelite men, so that god’s wrath wouldn’t pour down upon his own people.
What a joke. This is a classic mistake of bible thinking. Never, EVER, has an entire society been composed of 100% villains. It’s never happened, never will. Even under Nazi Germany, there were people who didn’t agree with Hitler. To assume ALL are doing the “bad deed” is a classic error of logic.
The YouTuber makes an “all inclusive” claim on the women of Midian. “They,” is all inclusive. It is assumed “ALL women” were seducing “god’s men.” First off, it takes two to tango. No woman raped these men. Blame your own people for stepping out, not the women for batting some eyelashes. Second, did “All women” do this? Rather unlikely. This is like the racist who says, “well ‘them people’ are nothing but criminals.” All inclusive arguments are almost always WRONG. Third, what is this dastardly crime? “They slept with ‘god’s men.'”
What is sidestepped here by the Christian, is that god can be wrong. The Bible can be wrong. By not accepting that possibility, they jump to irrational claims that these women deserved their deaths. This is the stuff of Blood Cults!
Yet again, we have a deviant action, done by men and defended by the Bible’s supposed “god.” They killed mothers, pregnant women and anyone who was verified as non-virgin. All because those women had consensual sex with men. Instead of judging the men for jumping the women, the focus is on the women. Classic male dominated thinking.
My response to him was this:
A better, more logical and reasoned answer to why they were killed, is that non-virgin women could not be sold into slavery. Consider this for context, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, focus on verse 14 there. This is repeated throughout the Bible. Once a woman has been “dishonored” (meaning no longer a virgin) she can not be sold as a slave. A female slave was a virgin, so a buyer would know what they’re getting. Non-virgin women were treated terribly under the “god” of the Bible: Deuteronomy 22:20-21. This was equivalent of destroying “damaged goods,” since the Bible views women as property.
In the least, we have evidence that this is not a Pro-Life god, nor a Pro-life group of people. End of story.
Saving the “young girls” for yourselves
The apologist tackles this one next… why did the Bible say that they young boys would be murdered, but the young girls be saved for “yourselves?”
It’s an entirely sexual verse. This is how the Bible cleans up the ideas of rape. It uses translation like “dishonored,” or “take for yourselves.”
A 5 year old boy, is no more a threat than a 5 year old girl. So why kill one but save the other? Slave trade.
The slave trade was something allowed in the Bible. Women were sold into slavery and utilized as sexual servants. I’m not suggesting that female children were used sexually, although they may have been, but most likely they would be raised as virgin girls for the slave trade.
We can see this repeated in other parts of the Bible:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Deuteronomy 21:10-14 for example.
Women, in the Bible, were objects. They were less than men, but more than animals. While some men appreciate their owned possessions, others would abuse them. To see the clarity of the Bible’s views on women, turn to:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29,. Deuteronomy 21:10-14,. 1 Corinthians 11:3-9, 1 Timothy 2:9-15
Women are told they need to be submissive to men, hold no authority over men. Because Eve supposedly sinned, all women are put under the punishment spectrum. Women are treated as “created in the image of men,” and men in the image of god. It’s a heirarchy of importance, created by men.
The speaker about 11m into his talk, rambles on about “tokens of virginity.” He omits, however, all the reality of the Bible in this regard. Biblical passage paint a different story.
Deuteronomy 22:20-21 explains that a woman, who is a non-virgin on her wedding, should be killed.
An unbetrothed woman (not promised to marriage), was treated as fertile ground… any man could take her. Those who were raped, could be bought by her rapist, and forced into marriage. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). Next time a Christian talks about “godly marriage” bring that up to them.
What if this happened today? Answer: it does, and we call these people terrorists. Boko Haram does this, they kill male children and men, selling virgins in a slave trade. If you defend these actions in the past, would you defend these actions today? That question is directly asked to the YouTuber, who runs from it, throwing up the smoke screen of abortion:
The question is asked, “I feel it should be explained in a more modern setting. It should not be justified in past terms. I mean how would anyone feel about this today. That is the reason this verse stands out.”
To which the YouTuber DOESN’T RESPOND. Classic Christian misdirection!
The YouTuber jumps on his soapbox and starts talking about something unrelated… “People say ‘how could God command judgement like this?’ But do not say anything in most cases about the 50,000,000 killed every year for money. Is this Hypocrisy?”
Let me explain something to the christians out there. It is YOU who are under scrutiny. Because YOU ARE ALL TWO FACED. You defend murdering children in the Bible, then attack abortion saying “it’s the murder of children!”
In other words, if there is SHIT in your Bible, why do you condemn people for the same supposed SHIT, but defend it when it’s in your bible?
This fellow knows all too well that he wouldn’t like this today. In Africa, a few years ago, men were beheaded in the street for the supposed crime of being “gay.” It happened after a evangelical pastor said their hardships are due to the sexual sins in their communities. Would this YouTuber defend that?
When asked directly, in that thread, about defending the murder of child molesters by vigilantes, the YouTuber said, “I can’t condone that.”
This is why it’s frustrating. It’s not society that’s TWO FACED. IT’s Christianity.
The fucking bible is a smoldering piece of shit. You can defend rape, murder slavery… or you can preach love, compassion and care for your fellow man. The fact the same book can be spun so many different ways, makes it dangerous.
To Sum It Up
Christianity is filth. It is a religion derived form filth. The Bible can be used as a means to kill, rape, murder, mass murder in the name of some “god.”
Apologists, like the lowest of lawyer, will crawl in the muck of the Bible to normalize it. They will attempt to distract with “historic context,” that really doesn’t deal with the issue. They will switch directions, smoke screening